tv U.S. House of Representatives CSPAN September 29, 2009 7:10pm-8:00pm EDT
pretty young woman's drink. it happens all of the time. i'm not saying it happened at that restaurant, don't got me wrong, i'm not saying that at all, but it can happen. you know what just doesn't make sense to me, malibu, i've eaten that the restaurant. it's great food. beautiful view of the pacific ocean. if, let's say a malibu resident or a rich person or a celebrity had forgotten their credit card, do you think the cops would had been called and she would end up in jail and then released at 1:30 in the morning, sir? >> caller: of course. especially when someone in her family or her entourage or camp who have offered to pay the bill, which was done in my daughter's case. several people offered to pay the bill. >> the great-grandma called and said, i will pay it. according to the publish thed reports that i've seen they want a fax machine and the great-grandma did not have a fax know. >> the great-grandma is 90 years
old and cannot drive and cannot use a cell phone, if you will. to say something about a facsimile is just utterly impossible. >> you know this just doesn't seem like, curtis sliwa. i would like you, mr. richardson, to hang in there. guardian angel curtis sliwa, take on all of this. this is crazy! >> well, number one, i think if you look at the restaurant, this young lady was sitting by herself, ordered a meal and then attached herself to a nearby group of eight and they didn't seem to reject her or complain to management. they just assumed she would pay for her own meal and her drinks, which at the end of it, she was incapable of and then the great-grandmother was more than happy to give her a credit card number. the restaurant should have just accepted it. the manager should have said, hey, look, if it doesn't pass mustard. it'll on my shift, i'll deal with it, but when it became a police matter, jane, you have to understand, she's an adult. if she insisted upon being released there's nothing the
sheriff's department can do to keep her in that. >> leo terrell? >> that's not true. that's not true. >> leo, let -- >> no, let me get that point in. >> you are wrong, leo. you're wrong. >> wait, let me see the panel. leo -- >> jane, jane, thank you, jane. they have a right to hold these people if they show mental dysfunction. this woman was not drunk. something called 5150. they could put a he would on her. they could have put a watch commander on a hold on her. it doesn't matter of age. >> mental issues. >> all right, hold on. hold on. please, please. we've got to go to break. >> jane ago, you're wrong. >> mr. richardson, please stay on the phone, sir. your daughter's missing, we want do everything we can to find her. back in just a couple of seconds. we're going to talk more about this missing woman in malibu. is it madness in malibu? it is mean in malibu? i want to hear what you have to say. 1-877-586-7297. 1-877-jvm-says. coming up, what will jon
we don't know the person that's in that booking report. something happened. what? that's why we're here today. what and where is she? we want her home. >> that was mitrice richardson's cousin, the 24-year-old woman has been missing since the night of september 17th. that's about 12 days ago when she walked out of a sheriff's station in the middle of the night, 1:30 a.m., no phone, no car. they'd impounded her car. no purse. back to my pan fastic panel. so delighted to have michael richardson. the father of the missing woman joining us on the phone. mr. richardson, stand-by. we want to include some our other guests for a second. robin robin, what i don't understand. she had this much pot. we know in california, something
called medicinal pot. i lived there for 18 years. everybody's taking medicinal pot. nobody's impounding their cars. anybody can buy medicinal pot by walking big store and saying i've got a tooth ache or an ear ache, okay? so why are they going to the lengths of impounding this woman's car because she's got a little bit of pot on her? >> i have no idea the amount of pot, but obviously she didn't say it was medicinal pot and they were just looking for some excuse. it's almost like harassment to me i'm sitting here thinking, for whatever they did, look at tremendous amount of expense that california's now going to incur because of all the searching for the woman and would have all been avoid by a simple cab fare or a ride home. this doesn't make sense and it's really a tragedy. >> way too hard on the cops. there's no evidence that they were trying to harass her. it is a crime to have not california if you zrooint medicinal subscription. >> do you work for the cops?
there's no judgment case for this. >> look, let me see the panel. >> have reason to believe that she was a danger to herself and others. >> oh, absolutely not. >> you had your opinion and let leo terrell speak. >> a classic example of a person who is not a lawyer, who is not in law enforcement, knows nothing about 5150. you don't know what you're talking about. >> you are an attorney and a forensic psychologist. make your point, 15 seconds, so that leo can respond and the father of the missing girl can respond. >> if the cops had a reason to believe that she was a danger to herself or to others, they should not have released her, but we don't have enough evidence to hang that on the cops. >> okay, hold on, hold on. you've made your point. here's the point, she -- according to a valet and other people who say she was from mars and said she had come there to avenge michael jackson's death. if that's not cuckoo for coco puffs i don't know what is, all
right? >> it's the very reason that got her into jail was enough reason to keep her and watch her in some capacity. >> we don't know how she behaved? custody. >> lou plum bow. >> that's not true. unfortunately we don't incarcerated for extended period of times of time. the simple fact of this is -- remains. the police were not compelled to provide her transportation upon her release. what we're really talking about is just common sense and decency. >> yes. >> and what i would consider to be an error in judgment. >> let's stop right there. >> no one's good judgment let's a young lady leaves at 1:30 in the morning. >> exactly. if i have a party and a young girl is acting cuckoo and wants to leave in the middle of the night i will say no, you will not leave. >> jane, a good point. >> let me do this, while we're talking, i want to show a google map we have all of the different places.
let's roll the google map as we continue this conversation. you'll see geoffrey's restaurant. you'll see where she lives. you'll see a possible siting. you'll see the sheriff's station. this is a massive area that they have to search. debbie in california, your question or thought, ma'am? >> caller: well ifeel bad for the family. but my comment is, i believe it's unfair to throw in brit me spears, lindsay lohan, anybody that's famous because you know, they have bodyguards, limos, they always have somebody there looking out for them. as an adult, you get arrested, the police do not -- they don't play taxi cab. i mean she should have made a phone call. >> hold on. debbie, i got debbie in california. >> look, there is -- >> okay, we have to go to the tease. i'm going to take leo terrell and the father in a moment. more on this mystery in malibu. coming up, you've been asking so we're going to deliver a special report on the casey
i ran upstairs and woke my husband up and we came and looked out the window and my husband said, are you okay? and she said i didn't know anyone was here, i'm just resting. we ran on to another window to see if anyone was with her and by then she's gone. >> that's an anonymous witness who believes she saw somebody who matches a description of mitrice richardson after mitrice left the sheriff's substation 12 days ago in the malibu area when she disappeared so i'm going to go back now, we're delighted to have with us, the father of this beautiful young lady who's miss, michael richardson. why would she just walk away? why wouldn't she accept the offer of the sheriff's office to stay there overnight? and if she was walking, put
yourself in her shoes. why was she doing that? where was she -- where did she think she was going, do you believe? >> caller: well, the thing about my daughter, jane, is she's petrified of the dark so i knew she wasn't in her right state of mind and just for the people's -- leo, we don't have to argue with these people. they don't know the facts. i'm a 17-year-old veteran in the hospital. do you know how many officers have the decency to bring in a possible 54 month, a possible 72 horror hold for an assess by case management? it's not their job to sit out there and say, oh this person is crazy. this person is not. take them to jail. same thing she went to jail for she should have stayed. all of the reasons that -- all of the reasons show that my daughter should have stayed there. it was common sense. >> you know what, jane, in addition -- on. >> hold on a second. hold on a second. michael, mr. richardson, does she have any history mental illness? >> caller: she has suffered from depression i later found out recently. >> what. >> jane, let me point out what i
think and this is the thing -- this is the point that none of your listeners know and your guests know. we have the tapes where there was information resulting to the sheriff's department about her state of mind. and that information should have triggered the sheriff's department, but none of your guests know that. the forensic guy's just guessing. we have the tape. i've listened to those tapes. she should had been placed on hold but he doesn't than. >> hold on a second, leo. are you saying before she was released somebody from the family called and told -- >> yes. >> -- told the sheriff's department she's got problems. >> yes, yes. and for that guy to sit there and -- no, let me finish. that forensic guy, he has no credibility. because i've heard those tapes. >> shot tapes. give them to cnn. >> hold ohold on. >> caller: not only that jane. >> brian russell. >> caller: nine witnesses that says my daughter was acting behavioral health. nine witnesses. the police refuse to give us tapes. refuse to give us tapes. i had to record them to get the information that i need. they were well aware of what was
going on with mitrice richardson and failed to accept it. >> leo, will you release the tapes tomorrow on our show? >> well, i am going do this. i'm going to release those tapes, talk it worst family and i want mr. forensic guy to make sure you're listening so you can comment on it because you have no -- >> mr. terrell, can i say something. >> i'm going to give enie meanie minie mo curtis sly wa with the final word. >> we don't know the conversation with in young woman. once inside of jail i am sure the cops were conversing with her and they showed her a cell as we were told and she probably didn't want to stay. i never wanted to stay in the cell and i've been booked many times. you give me an opportunity to get outane i'm out of there. >> guys, we're going to bring this up tomorrow. join us again tomorrow, next
explosive new developments in the casey anthony. fbi documents claim a snan casey's trunk appears to be in the silhouette of a child in the fetal position. meanwhile was crucial evidence destroyed by the fbi? has the prosecution sabotaged its own case? plus outrage over a mind-boggling delay. it took seven hours perform a sobriety test on an nypd officer accused of killing a pedestrian. while drunk driving behind the wheel. was law enforcement trying to give this cop time to sober up before the test? tonight, a massive head-spinning document dub in the kailey anthony murder investigation and in potentially
devastating evidence for the defense and the prosecution. in the prosecution's corner, an fbi e-mail referring to a haunting photo of a large stain on the trunk liner of casey's car. conclusion, the fbi analyst says there appears to be, "the outline or silhouette of a child in the fetal position." that's on the lining of the trunk. now that's a real bombshell. this child's outline dove tails with other incriminating trunk evidence that we've known for months now, including the air samples showing decomposition and a hair belonging to caylee anthony. and of course who can forget this? >> but at the same time, the new documents exposed what could be a colossal clunker by crime
scene investigators. get this, people, when dusting for fingerprints they apparently destroyed residue from the heart-shaped sticker found on the duct tape stretched across little caylee's mouth. that was a crucial piece of evidence. how did that happen? compounding issues related to the tape, female dna was found on it and it did not belong to casey or caylee. turns out it matched the dna of one of the lab techies and plus a close examination of crime lab reports by "issues" has turned up even more material, that's potentially damaging to the prosecution. was there a mystery person, not casey, not caylee and not the fbi tech who left hair and dna at the crime scene. straight out to my fantastic expert panel. jane way traub, criminal defense attorney. atlanta criminal defense attorney. steve rogers, lieutenant from the nutley police new jersey
department. boy, that's a mouthful. curtis sliwa, founder, guardian angels. and stacey honowitz, florida prosecutor. stacey, boy this outline of a child in the fetal position, this is really, really amazing evidence, if it's true. have you ever heard of evidence like this, an outline from a mystery state? it kind of reminds me of those people who see religious figures you know in the corner of a ceiling, and they're convinced it's a religious figure taken turns out it's cobwebs. >> this is really big, and finally, jane, i can tell you when you say bomb shell this can be a major bombshell not that anything that you have said is not true but this is exciting evidence. that's the only thing that i can say. i mean if in fact it's true and someone has seen the outline or does believe it's an outline it will be challenged if it's admissible in court but certainly it's very interesting new evidence to bring to the forefront. >> yeah but there's so much weird stuff about this. okay, let's talk about the
stain, allegedly found in the trunk liner of casey's car. an fbi analyst interceptipretat was that it was possible resembled an image of the child of a fetal position. according to the documents it was not caused by biological liquid, like blood or fluid decomposition. no dna was found on the stain and plus not everybody at the fbi bought into this analyst interpretation. he said, "others can draw their own conclusions about that." so, jane watrab, how can we be sure it's a stain when there's no dna. >> well, number one you can't be. number two oh, i guess that you look at the pattern of the police conduct in had case or the evidence-gathering skills, oh, sorry you cannot look to that for it it. you know what, jane, this case is abominable. every piece of evidence that i've reviewed in the discovery from today excludes or exculpates casey anthony and it's a shame.
2008, they're just releasing today? what took them over a year? this is absurd. there is no decompsizing decomposing hair that matches casey or caylee anthony. there is no hair from -- >> well, they have already found, wait a second. they've already found that in the trunk a long time ago. they found that hair of signs of decomposition and it was one the anthony's. >> that's what they did say, one of the anthony's and now we know that it exclude it's. >> well, the anthony that's dead. >> the person who is charged with the murder that's not who is decomposing here and the dna's not there and we also know that is t wasn't caylee's dna or if a mom or grandmother's hair brush we know it's not defendant's. >> you know, what let me just say this, let me just say this, we're talking a lot of stuff that the viewers at home may not really be clear about because we're talking about all of this different dna evidence. so you've got -- >> no physical evidence. >> hold on. you've got the outline a child in the fetal position. that's a plus for the prosecution.
let's talk about a couple of things that could -- >> a plus from. >> the doofs well, ah, i don't know. a good question. curtis sliwa, if they found this outline, why not put it it through the discovery so we could all see the picture of the outline. >> jane, like you yourself said it could a stigmata. an image like the child but it's not the child. remember, eight pages of discovery and i'm sure once the child gets under way a lot of the evidence is going to be tossed or challenged by the defense. about but 8,000 pages of discovery, i would have to say, there's a lot of stuff there that's going to be used in this case that the defense is going to find very, very difficult to defend. >> drew finley, why not shot outline if this bombshell outline of a child in the fetal position in the trunk where they smelled decomposition, where the mom screams the mom casey, it smells like a dead body in the damn car. why not show us the outline in the discovery dump?
>> well, for the simple reason. it's so coincidental that we hear about this shape of this body, but that somebody's finally noticed and we're hearing at the same time more detailed kind of transitioning into the issue of the heart-shaped sticker, we've heard this bombshell about the heart-shaped sticker and now we're finding out that only one person in quantico, one person that ever saw that, and in fact that was two days -- that was two days before traced evidence people -- excuse me, two days after trace evidence people disclosed they never saw anything like that. so now we don't even know whethnary heart sticker ever took place. and remember, this is not simply a murder case. >> i wonder if there's a photograph of it, you know? >> there is none. they've unveiled no photograph of it. >> oh boy. >> except one person said no photograph. >> what do you mean take a photograph of it. >> well, no photograph -- >> whe've been talking about outline of this heart-shaped sticker for months.
nobody took their iphone and took a picture of it. >> it's quantico who said they never took a picture of it. >> what are we looking at right now? >> the trace evidence unit said they did take photographs. but they never saw any evidence of a heart-shaped sticker so i think the conclusion in a death penalty case is it doesn't exist and it never existed. >> all right, well, this is -- >> jane -- >> -- i feel like somebody popped something that's mood of altering because this is craziness. based on a careful anal sifs today's document dump, there are some pretty strong pieces of evidence that some say could help casey's defense. here are a couple. any and all traces left of residue left by in heart-shaped sticker that was seen by an fbi fingerprinting examiner. obliterated during fingerprint test. she apparently dusted away the evidence. and didn't take a picture. this is what we've been discussing. now, don't forget about the female lab tech who somehow shed her dna onto the duct tape.
meantime, fbi lab documents also indicate that a hair not belonging to either casey or caylee was found on evidence collection paper used at the crime scene to recover the duct tape. plus, it apiece, the fbi has documented a partial dna profile found on the duct tape at the crime scene and it's not casey's, it's not caylee's, it's not the lab technician's. the question is, who is this mystery person? steve rogers, they found this duct tape in the woods. it could be anybody. >> well, exactly right. and, jane, it would be inconceivable for investigators not to photograph any of the evidence that they're examining. so with regard to images, et cetera, it's either an image or it's not but tell you this, with the technology we have today we could confirm whether that was an actual outline of a fetus or not and regarding the duct tape you're absolutely right. it could be anyone's. but you have to keep in mind that everything is photographed from the initial -- from the second that the investigation begins because if you lose it,
if it gets corrupted at least you have a photograph. >> janney wine traub, when are we going to see this outline if it exists, do you think? >> i don't think that you're going see it. i don't think that it exists. i think it's a figment of someone's imagination just like the heart-shaped sticker where no adhesion now on the duct tape. it's nice for them to say that it was destroyed in fingerprints. >> i have to leave it right there. we'll zhus case more. >> i don't understand that jane. we feel like we're entitled to see everything that's given between the prosecution and the defense. >> well, show us the photos. okay, we have to go. thank you, fantastic panel. coming up, breaking news on dj am, adam goldstein's sudden death, what the medical examiner says killed him. then, an innocent woman dead. will a new york cop who's allegedly drunk behind the wheel escape punishment because it took seven hours to draw his blood? 1-877-jvm-says. when johnny carson said good-bye
"kate plus 8." ouch. since the couple announced their divorce, jon has been living the high-life going to celebrity soirees and dating college-aged girls. what about the mother of his eight kids? jon didn't hold back on abc's primetime. >> i don't trust her anymore. i was abused. >> what does that mean? you bogabused. >> i was verbally abused. i was beatened down. she separated me from my faa family, my mom and my brothers. they say to me, it's so good to have the real jon back. >> wow. strong words. but now it appears jon gosselin may have had a change of heart. "in-touch weekly," reporting he's trying to put the brakes on his divorce. maybe he realized without kate plus 8, jon ain't so great. straight to amy palmer, senior editor at "in-touch weekly." dare we ask what is the very latest with this kooky clan? >> the very latest is that jon
wants to put a 90-day hold on his divorce proceedings so that he and kate can work on their co-parenting skills and open up the lines of communication. now it seems to me that jon has been criticizing kate in the media. he's just been absolutely disrespectful to her and the family. so it's very interesting to see how kate's going to react to this. >> yeah, and it's sort of timing is a little odd. you despise kate one moment and all of a sudden we're going to cancel you from the show and suddenly he wants to reconcile. i mean, do the math, right? >> yeah, i mean the guy's trying to save his image. there's no doubt he's trying to spin this to his advantage. he knows at the public sides with kate. kate is all over the place. she was on "the view." she's just talking about having her own talk show. she's really the star now and, look, we don't even need jon and "jon & kate plus 8." we're fine with "kate plus 8." doing a spin control here. >> that's mean. he's done his work, he can leave now, that snurts absolutely.
a record 10.5 million people tuned into to see the gosselin's announce their separation. plummeted when the couple started to film separately. viewers want the drama. they want the bickering, like this stuff. >> white sandals. >> no. >> no, i'm saying flip-flops. just let them wear what they want to wear so i don't have to hear it all day. >> what, we lose the shoes and then they have nothing to wear? >> lose their shoes. >> i have enough to keep track of. this is what i'm saying. stand with me or stand against me. >> i'll talk in here. >> amy, without jorngs who is she going to argue with? >> you know what, i don't know, but it's going to be quite interesting to see who takes his place. wouldn't it be great to see who kate actually ends up dating and bringing into this crazy world? i think that tlc definitely is great in saying let's focus on kate and we don't know jon. let him go do whatever he's going to do. >> i just lot of bickering. the only thing that i liked about the show so i hope she
gets i very obnoxious boyfriend and they can argue more. thanks very much, amy. appreciate it. >> thanks, jane. an outrageous twist in the case against the cop who killed a woman while allegedly driving drunk. could he get away with it because other cops dragged their feet? new reports claim nypd officer andrew kelly refused to take a breathalyzer test at the scene. it then allegedly took law enforcement more than seven hours before they finally drew the officer's blood. when the officer smashed his car into her, killing her, he allegedly had been drinkinging for hours. "the newlyio daily news" reports as his victim lie diag, refused to cooperate with a breathalyzer test. shouting "i will not let that happen. you will have to tie me down." yesterday lere on "issues" i predicted that something was fishy when we could not find out the officer's blood-alcohol
level. listen. this was just yesterday. >> it's interesting that we do not have anymore in published reports today his blood-alcohol level which we usually would have the day after in a story like this. as a cop he knows how to play the game. he knows that he doesn't have to take that breathalyzer test at the scene. it's possible that if time passes, your alcohol level can go down because i've done stories on it. >> we said it first, there's kelly decked out in his yankee gear. "the new york daily news" reports he went to the yankee game and went bar hopping allegedly downing eight drinks before the crash. so why the seven-hour delay to draw his blood? is this a case of cops helping out their buddy? when his blood was finally drawn, could his blood-alcohol level had been dropped by that point so low that they will now not be able to prove that he was drunk. plus, where's officer kelly's mug shot? we called the nypd looking for it and they say, we don't
release mug shotses. what! hello, read the hello. read the papers, people. mug shots are everywhere. they're public record. when we told them that, they said no, they're not. what the heck is going on here? straight out to my fabulous expert panel. curtis sliwa, guardian angel. is this case being handled differently because kelly is a cop? is this the so-called blue wall of silence? >> you know, that's why when i met you you were such a good gumshoe reporter in new york city and then in hell.a. you smelled p one out. you go, girl. you're right on this -- >> i have to say, i was. >> this cop is being sweated down. and you know what that means, they're drinking starbucks coffee lying there's no tomorrow, going up and down trying to sweat it out. 5:00 in the morning they were going to take the blood. the doctor was told don't take the blood. they didn't take the blood till 8:00. so you're absolutely correct. it was tricknology right here.
the car was coming, and they're like, veronica, come back across the street. and i guess as she turned around -- well, she tried to turn around. the car hit her on the right side. they said that the car hit her so hard that she almost hit the traffic light. >> that's one of vionique vionique's friends who watched her get run over-a legendly by an lapd officer who cops say was drunk behind the wheel. but how are they going to prove it? they didn't take his blood for seven hours and 20 minutes. 12:40 a.m. this cop allegedly hits and kills vionique valnord. he refuses a breathalyzer. it's not until 2:00 a.m. that the brooklyn d.a. gets wind of this. it takes until 5:30 a.m. to wang a judge and get a warrant for a blood alcohol test. at 5:52 the cop gets to the
hospital, refuses again to give blood. doctors don't know they no longer need permission. so they wait. it takes until 8:00 a.m. seven hours and 20 minutes to get this guy's blood. his blood alcohol content was driving every minute, stacy honowitz. you're the prosecutor. why did they let this happen? >> i mean, i'm a prosecutor, but i couldn't tell you what happened in this case. but you know, jane, it's not always just the blood alcohol level that allows you to prove drunk driving. you really need to see the -- this is why. because -- >> why did they wait seven hours? >> i don't know what was written in the police report. but certainly, if they're going to test for drunk driving, there's other issues besides blood alcohol. you're right. it was probably on its way down. i don't know why it took so long, especially if there ways warrant in this case. >> steve rogers. >> but there's other things to look at. >> i will say this. i'm a recovering alcoholic with 14 years of sobriety. and that means that i know, i have like drunkdar, i can tell
when somebody's got -- i've heard a lot of stories over the years. i've heard that if you get pulled over you stall, you don't take the breathalyzer, and you wait as long as you can, eating cookies or anything you can eat to lower your blood alcohol level. >> it's not a breathalyzer -- >> hold on. stacey, go ahead. >> there's an odor of alcohol. is there slurred speech? are there bloodshot eyes? are there other test that's are given? it's not just a matter of do we run and get a breathalyzer because plenty of people refuse and still get convicted of dui. >> this is also a story on what went on here. look, as a professional law enforcement officer i'm outraged. this is inexcusable on the part of these officers. and jane, you mentioned something very interesting opening up. is this the blue wall of silence? police officers watching your show need to learn something, that that blue wall, if it in fact is the case here, comes crushing down on the heads of officers who compromise their oath of office. this -- >> you're all assuming something. >> -- investigation is inexcusable on its face. you don't wait seven hours to
get a blood alcohol content level. they could have taken him to the hospital. they didn't need a warrant. they had probable as you. blood test, bingo, there's your blood alcohol content. >> the doctor didn't know it -- >> stacey, you know, generally i agree with you. but the fact is, yeah, you can't -- a juror can't smell alcohol because they weren't there when the accident occurred. the one thing they can look at is at a blood alcohol level. it tells the whole story. what about that wrong-way driver? the blood alcohol level was the thing. because the husband's saying no, she wasn't drunk. >> jane. >> jane, you're 100% right. the blood alcohol level does enhance the case and makes it easier to prove. but there are several cases where someone refuse -- >> okay. >> -- the breathalyzer and doesn't -- >> as is their right. >> got to go. we'll do it again tomorrow. remember, click on cnn.com/jane. preorder your copy of my recovery memoir, "iwant." it will help you get sober if you want. and also don't forget the debut of "the joy behar show" is tonight right after nancy grace. you've got to ksh